SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions

ZLO

@manimal_
If you think HQs are useless then maybe you just have never played teamgames on heavy eco 20 km maps.... like Seton's Clutch 4v4.

Air players on that map need to spam ASFs.
You know, in vanilla the most efficient way to make them is to make a t3 air factory and assist it with as many engineers as you can fit around it. Usually it was around 300-400 engineers

Then you maybe add another factory with another 400 enginners... mostly because you just can't fit more engineers around your 1rst factory

and that lags the hell out of the game.
8 players and each of them has at least 200 enginers
and people often used this trick to assist all engineers to one of engineer and afaik that creates even more lag

similar happens to all t3 factories, in vanilla they are just very expensive so you never make more than one and assist that one with as much engineers as you can and that kinda sucks. and engy mod fixes that with HQs and t2 t3 engineer buffs.

Now you can make more than one factory because cheap factories are available and can make use of ajacency bonuses
and asissting with t2 or t3 engineers is not as bad as it used to be ESPECIALLY because you need a t2 or t3 factory to make those t2 and t3 engineers and that became much cheaper

new meta with t3 air fac + t3 pgen grids made late game much more playable

Manimal_

Assisting with engies is for the factions that don't have Kennel like units...

CATEGORIES can help a lot in units selection (to make groups)
Coupled with some variables such as Veterancy Level and other ones, this could give rather accurate reults...

ZLO

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

I've made Labs that works around Vet levels and the selection should stick to that...

Not sure what that means sorry

Try a game with ExpWars v2_8_2 out of FAF, with no other mods enabled ... and then enjoy.

I would probably play on FAF since there are more people to play with and less bugs, exploits and stuff like that.
And UI improvements and UI mods, rating system to make games more balanced, map and mod vaults, map and mod autodownload, original game does not even allow to rebind keys.

If you are remaking your mod you should make it compatible with FAF... and ideally with other mods

i don't play with mods but people who like mods often enable several mods

ZLO

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

Assisting with engies is for the factions that don't have Kennel like units...

Nah, t1 engineers are more mass and power efficient, if you don't use those you will be at disadvantage.

maybe cybran Hives are not that bad, but other factions don't have them.
kennels are more expensive than hives and can get killed by air (especially if you don't play with FAF :P, on FAF asfs can't target drones so your base doesn't get destroyed by asf fire)

Manimal_

You did not get what I said :

I've orignaly made the mod ExpWars in a way that change some game mechanics (among other things)
This is why it 's been released first as an exclusive mod. For many reasons.

I've made it later as non-exclusive, assuming people won"t complain in case of bugs by mixing up mods that are not compatible together...

So do not even try to run it in FAF "as is" or you would waste your time given it won't run properly.
As I've written above : I'm working on making it compatible... and it's not yet ready to be released.

Manimal_

@zlo said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

Assisting with engies is for the factions that don't have Kennel like units...

Nah, t1 engineers are more mass and power efficient, if you don't use those you will be at disadvantage.

maybe cybran Hives are not that bad, but other factions don't have them.
kennels are more expensive than hives and can get killed by air (especially if you don't play with FAF :P, on FAF asfs can't target drones so your base doesn't get destroyed by asf fire)

I assume you know how to make resources generator "cells"
e.g. 2 x T3 Pgen + 2 T3 MassGen in a cross-like shape.

Repeat until you reach 1 k of mass

Nex

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

I assume you know how to make resources generator "cells"
e.g. 2 x T3 Pgen + 2 T3 MassGen in a cross-like shape.
Repeat until you reach 1 k of mass

Yes that works if you either have no opponents or they just idle.
If your opponent actually tries to defeat you, you will lose if you build kennels and he spams t1 engies.

ZLO

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

@zlo said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

Assisting with engies is for the factions that don't have Kennel like units...

Nah, t1 engineers are more mass and power efficient, if you don't use those you will be at disadvantage.

maybe cybran Hives are not that bad, but other factions don't have them.
kennels are more expensive than hives and can get killed by air (especially if you don't play with FAF :P, on FAF asfs can't target drones so your base doesn't get destroyed by asf fire)

I assume you know how to make resources generator "cells"
e.g. 2 x T3 Pgen + 2 T3 MassGen in a cross-like shape.

Repeat until you reach 1 k of mass

not sure how resource farms have anything to do with factory assisting and efficiency of buildpower...

at 1rst you would have to assist those air factories anyway, because if you don't then you get bombed, and even after when you made those resource farms it is still more mass-efficient to assist with t1 engineers (we are talking about vanilla FA here 1.5.3599 i assume where you need just 3 t2 pgens to start making t3 air)t)

you make t3 air probably before all your mexes are on t2 and before t3 pgen and before t3 engineer... you need to help your team instead of going toward 1k resources

arma473

@zlo said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

if i could set that if i double clicl ASF or interceptor and all faction ASF or inteceptors get selected

Good idea. It should be that way.

Nex

i think the hotkey "select similar units" does that
not sure tho

TheWeakie

Hey did you really have to write that? As a newcomer I really don't feel welcome here, I mean sure, some people greeted me, I also got 3 trainer propositions in PM and some tutorial links I guess, I don't really remember, there were too many. Anyway this place really is hostile, I was just poking around and you have to come in all self-important with your sarcasm. It's so hard to fit in here, everyone always refuses to talk to newbies and every time I try to ask a question I only get arrogant responses. Why is it so hard to just answer a simple question? I mean yea, some do, but did you have to add your own "meme" on top? Why not talk like a normal person and respect your partner in conversation, Jesus. This place really isn't what it says it is, I hope I'm the only one facing such inexcusable experiences.

veteranashe

This thread makes my head hurt

FtXCommando

Manimal_

I understand that FAF has brought some changes in the game mechanics.
But most of you replied my questions as if this was obvious to me.
Just think of me like I'm discovering anew the game...

About Air Factories :
I was trying to underline that they're still looking like T1 in spite of their upgrades to T3...
That's suprizing for some old player who's playing again much later and who's expecting to get a T3 A.F. that looks like a T3 A.F....

AFAIR from replies above :
If I don't upgrade this one stupid HQ thing, then I won't be able to tech up the other factories.
I don't know who decided to implement this idea of HQs and their mechanics, but it does seem useless at first sight.
And I'm wondering if all players find it good.

About the SACUs :
Absolutely nothing indicates that those ones are gaining Veterancy through the "pre-build" button. (again, at first sight)
And WHY would they suddenly gain Veterancy by pre-building their optional (back, torso, shoulder) upgrades ?
Again, this is another choice I do not understand and I do not even agree.
IMHO, you'd better re-use my Veterancy Labs as this would make things much more clear and understanble, not to say acceptable...

Nex

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

I was trying to underline that they're still looking like T1 in spite of their upgrades to T3...

They don't

(Different Amount of Arms on T1/T2/T3 and an additional tower on hqs)

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

If I don't upgrade this one stupid HQ thing, then I won't be able to tier up the other factories.

The first factory you upgrade will always be an hq upgrade.
all factories after that can and should be upgraded as support factories, which are a lot cheaper than hqs. But once your hq is destoryed you can no longer built T2/3 units from your support factories until you built a new hq.

This allows you to better scale up unit production (as the additional factories are cheaper), without spamming 300 engineers (as this would save you a significant amount of mass in vanilla FA) and this makes the game better for everyone as it will have less lag due to fewer units.

@manimal_ said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades seem to be bugged:

Absolutely nothing indicates that those ones are gaining Veterancy through the "pre-build" button.

They don't. but when killed units give veterancy to their killer based on their mass cost, but do not count their upgrades. The presets are coded in such a way, that they factor in the upgrades in their costs, thus giving more veterancy when killed and leaving a wreck including the mass from the upgrades.

Manimal_

Historicaly , the buildings gain 1 "Tower" per Tech level :

1 "Tower" = T1 (the initial look of a factory)
2 "Towers" = T2
3 "Towers" = T3

This way to show up Tech levels was (and is still) good, clear, not ambiguous.

TheVVheelboy

Well the icons are distinct enough. The buildings also look way different so not clue why it is a problem.

Manimal_

It is a problem when I think I'm having a Tech 1 building which is actualy a higher Tech one.

I'm used to the GOOD old visuals...

SpikeyNoob

Seems like a skill issue, just look at the buildings its not that hard.

Manimal_

@spikeynoob said in SACUs and Factories Upgrades questions:

Seems like a skill issue, just look at the buildings its not that hard.

it is hard to my old eyes... tiny icons with even tinyer Tech marks... d'oh !

And It's getting worse by zoom out