The Fatboy
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yes
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You would need to increase the speed of a megalith by a simular ammount or else it would move at same speed.
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I'm not a fan of the vision increase - currently you have to try and maintain intel around the fatboy to watch out for e.g. a spider sneaking up on it, and it gives Cybran an option to surprise the fatboy. Given the fatboy hard counters the megalith (even moreso with the proposed speed increase), and the monkeylord is much weaker later in the game, I dont it'd be beneficial.
I also really dont like the Anti-Artillery TMD idea. It adds unnecessary complexity making the game even harder for people coming from Forged Alliance to get used to, and isn't intuitive. If a unit is unbalanced there's no need to introduce an entirely new concept and defence mechanism.
Re the build power boost if 'build while moving' isn't going to get introduced I'd be inclined to double the build power, as it takes a while for the fatboy to actually stop moving to be able to start building in the first place.
I'd also prefer a boost to its shield health rather than its base health to give a greater boost to it's utility and attritional use.
In short I agree with the idea of making it better as a mobile factory, dislike the vision and TMD idea, and don't have strong views on the other adjustments
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Me when my 110k hp direct fire tank can no longer simply right click to kill the 25k hp indirect fire tank that takes 5 minutes to kill it. Amazing how dudes don’t apply this logic to t3 phase.
Funny thing is that it still can since a mega has a speed of 2, making this even more asinine. If you literally swapped the speeds of mega and fatboy you would essentially get a complete translation of the dynamic going on between snipers and percies.
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Vision is interesting, but not keen on the speed buff, Fatboy should not be faster than Crab IMO.
It does need something though, UEF "experimentals" are in a very sad state in the current meta.
- Massive increase to crab and Fatboy factory Build power.
- Fatboy Small Repair Field same area as shield to encourage supporting armies?
- Shield regen or base health buff for Fatboy to increase survivability vs Artillery.
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Repair field makes it even sexier of an aoe bait tool than it already is and building things with your fatboy will be a meme even if it could literally build a percy in 1 second
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Wait, why shouldn't it be able to poop out a few UEF T3 units a minute?
Its an "Experimental Factory". Its useless at combat and nobody seems to be interested in fixing that, so why not give it the BP it needs to do something for a while before it inevitably gets killed by t2 air or t2 arty, or any other random experimental that finds it.
10 Hives near a factory already achieves the same construction ability with significantly less cost and less risk.
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Because it’s too expensive for that to be a viable usage of it.
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As Fatboy and Mega's building functionality are so underused, massively increasing the build power is a good idea. It might actually lead to that feature being used. It would be very interesting to see where that leads.
Hard no on any speed changes for the fatty. If you have the longest range of all units, you have to be ok with the slowest speed as well.
I don't think the HP of the fatty is a big issue either. First of all, if something like a monkey or some T3 land units kill your fatty, its not an issue of tank. Its an issue of bad micro. Against air or arty bases you can support your fatty with shields and aa (either mobile or stationary). This requires some set up, but a slow push of a fatty with some engies supporting by spamming T2 shields and sams along the way can be pretty devastating.
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@xayo said in The Fatboy:
Hard no on any speed changes for the fatty. If you have the longest range of all units, you have to be ok with the slowest speed as well.
Where is ur sniper hard nerf thread
Also buff obsidian to morbillion speed
Also just a daily reminder in general that all the direct fire t4s have entirely variable ranges for their major dps guns yet the same speed barring mega.
Right now UEF suffers the stupidity of the general cognitive dissonance of a t3 stage where you get explained “LOL just use indirect fire bro, snipes aren’t even that bad” and a t4 stage of “nooooo way can a fatboy be the speed of a mega, it might take 10k hp off my mega and I would be forced by divine laws of nature to suicide it in because there is just no other way to deal with a fatty except direct fire t4s.”
UEF players only ones smart enough to realize you can make air thanks to janus gameplay or what?
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You want the good version of fatty without actually changing speed or anything damage related? You give it mega-tier HP of like 50 or 60k. Maybe even 70k. There is a triage of HP, speed, and range/damage and currently a mega has 2 of those. A GC/chicken/ml likewise have 2 of those for their costs. A fatty got 1 and maybe if that range was bigger than t2 arty it would be justified, but the differences between mega and fatty range in terms of other relevant gameplay ranges amounts to pretty much 0.
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Auroras also have just one of those and are considered overall the best T1 tanks.
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No they aren’t. They’re ”the best” in exactly the situation where their disadvantages are minimized ie open 5x5. And even then, I don’t think they’re strictly superior as a faction in those situations anymore due to Aeon gun range nerf.
The whole reason Aeon got the best lab that is essentially 75% a tank with more speed is precisely to address these weaknesses in their main tank on anything beyond those types of maps.
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Ah forgot, you can’t buff mega BP to any relevant level cuz then it just goes back to insta reclaiming t4 wrecks after battles since it doesn’t build units and THEN pop them up but the unit on the ground itself.
Though that makes me wonder if it’s possible to store land units similar like air units in these units. That way you could give mega and fatty some aoe reclaim mechanism which utilizes the mass to create some assortment of units and then you just immediately deploy the army at your leisure. Some mechanic like that is the only way I see an “experimental factory” identity working tbh.
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You would need to increase the speed of a megalith by a simular ammount or else it would move at same speed.
not keen on the speed buff, Fatboy should not be faster than Crab IMO.
Megalith's speed is set at 2. Which is 14% faster than the Fatboy.
With the proposed speed change, that difference is reduced to about 8%.
I'm not a fan of the vision increase... a spider sneaking up on it.
I see your point, but that's somewhat relevant to its survivability.
Which is already low as is.the fatboy hard counters the megalith
That really depends on the circumstances, but the Megalith still has more room to engage aggressively if it decides to - mostly due to the HP difference. The Megalith has nearly 3.5x the HP with with a significantly more direct damage output.
I also really dont like the Anti-Artillery TMD idea... no need to introduce an entirely new concept and defence mechanism.
The game is already drastically different than that of FA.
And it will be even more different with the new interactions and overhauls coming in the next balance patch.
And that's not even considering the T3 MAA units that were added.
At this point, what's one more change to the list of hundreds... thousands?
Wait, why shouldn't it be able to poop out a few UEF T3 units a minute?
Re the build power boost if 'build while moving' isn't going to get introduced I'd be inclined to double the build power, as it takes a while for the fatboy to actually stop moving to be able to start building in the first place.
I messed with a significantly more BP, up to 480, double the BP of the Atlantis... but that just makes the Fatboy end up using an unreal amount of mass/s when building a unit.
Even with this amount of BP, the roll off time and animation severely limit the number of units that can be built and deployed.
That being said, at times, the animation gets interrupted, and... it's just a huge mess overall.If the animation could be adjusted then a higher BP could be attained, but its mass usage just gets worse and worse.
That seems like the most detrimental point that deters from more BP.
I'd also prefer a boost to its shield health rather than its base health to give a greater boost to it's utility and attritional use.
Could remove some HP from the base unit and give it to the Shield, as well.
With the shield changes I suggested, a larger shield capacity could be a great dynamic.Base HP: 15,000 -> 10,000
Shield HP: 20,000 -> 25,000Maybe this could be a decent stat change.
I was trying to make the Shield quite Unique to the Fatboy - this just further enforces that.
I like it.
Fatboy Small Repair Field same area as shield to encourage supporting armies?
A regen field... interesting. Would increase the utility of the Fatboy greatly.
I like it.
you could give mega and fatty some aoe reclaim
AOE reclaim sounds broken at first.
deploy the army at your leisure
Land carrier?
~ Stryker
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I also want to point out that a lot of people kept recommending to me that the Fatboy come with some form of Drone assistance to escort it.
I can see the drones being useful... especially if they're the T3 drones that the SACU has - as long as they're balanced, obviously.
I guess it's a decent idea to have some form of Mobile Engineer assistance without the need of a physical engineer or SACU to tag along with the Fatboy.
What do you guys think?
~ Stryker
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I think its a good idea to increase buildpower and slightly buff shield regen
However, buffing vision / baseHP / agility is too strong, i think
Its already good and annoying kiter, there is no reason to buff its abilities even further -
@ftxcommando said in The Fatboy:
Because it’s too expensive for that to be a viable usage of it.
Half the reason SACUs are fun to use offensively is that you don't have to manage an engineer fleet as well as an army, or dick about with transports, yet you get to build most of the useful buildings directly on the front line whenever you want.
In fact, this use of Rambo SACUs was so viable, as you put it, that it had to be nerfed recently. They're not meant to be amazing engineers as well as amazing fighters, yet people use their building abilities a lot more than they do the fatty's, even after the well-deserved nerf.
Making use of the fatty's build power is too clunky in comparison, since you have to jump through the hoop of making engies first before you get access to the useful buildings list and before you can issue the build orders. I think this friction and tedium is the main reason the ability isn't used more. Rambos prove it's useful and fun to build before or after a fight, but with the fatty it's too fiddly to bother.
I'm in favor of giving the fatty the ability to build on the move and having the units automatically follow, or stay inside until deployed, or giving it a larger build list (like a SACU), or even a simple build power buff (it can't reclaim like the mega so no problem there, but this doesn't address the clunk). Any of these options would hopefully make it more fun to use, and more capable of responding to sudden threats, as long as the player invests attention and micro. It's the equivalent of buffing it's "spells" as opposed to it's base stats, and deserves at least some consideration since it's intended role (i think) is more geared towards a support unit than any other experimental.
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The thing with rambo sacus is that they're extremely viable relative to other sacus. There's no choice because rambo can just do everything. In terms of the whole game, rambo sacus aren't really oppressive or really all that viable. They get rinsed against direct fire t4s (another good friend uef hole in the roster) and you just need to work on not letting 50k mass of them conglomerate in one spot.
Even with that, the value in rambos come from the fact they are basically a fatboy in survivability for way less cost, way faster, way easier to maneuver around enemy defenses/armies, and on top of that can plop down emergency sams/shields/arties/pd depending on the crisis they need to respond to. A fatboy is irrelevant for any of that because you need the t3 engies around it already because a fatboy exists in perpetual crisis situation because it's aggressively mediocre as long as nothing about percies gets adjusted.
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Going off of our convo, then...
Fatboy:
Range:
100 - 128?If we're gonna make it viable... then do that.
Why are we focusing on adjusting so many other stats when adjusting one is should be more than enough?If the range is the focus, then the range should be its advantage.
As you even mentioned... during the tournament, your team built 1 Fatboy and over 15 Ythothas.If we want to fix that, then increase the range.
Everything else can stay the same or be slightly adjusted, but that honestly goes to show that the Fatboy lacks strength and presence...
Even at absurdly high Elo lobbies.
~ Stryker
