Do not add new colors - discussion
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Ok last suggestion from me, again forgive rough cut and paste here, seems I have spent enough time playing with this for now.
It seems to be the new colours are liked (by me too) but visibility and designation are the real issues, like the screenshot above from Arch shows (altho the choice of mex icons is not helping...)
so I propose a loose categorisation of the new icons if they go in - I know this would require more coding on the client so for now I would be in favor of reversion in the new patch until ready.
Below we have the new icons arranged into 16 categories, for 16 players, they will be distinct enough from the other categories in game - also easily referred to by English speakers at least IMHO - you have dark blue, blue, blue-green, purple, dark purple, dark pink, dark red, pink, red, orange, yellow, white, gray, dark green, green, yellow-green.
Also means we are not losing any old colours, and there is potential room for more down the track, and this would also easily allow adding a preset for colour blind players. I was surprised to learn even some regular vision pro players use the alternate set!
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Me......
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Here is my idea
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Black got removed forever ago for making icons unclear.
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For months I have anguished over the decision on what color I want to paint my living room... But no more. Thanks to this glorious forum post I have now decided that 'positively pewter' is the color for me. If it weren't for this great sharing of ideas I would still be going to my local hardware store to spend $5 on paint samples.
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Whatever you do, do not reduce the number of colors. People actively choose colors to not have similar colors side by side. Having three similar colors in 16 player game is not a big problem, if one is in left, another in mid, and last one in right. But having only 16 colors, means that last one can end up with very similar color to his neighbor. And that is a problem.
Also many players have their favorite color. And if that is not available, they choose similar colors. This makes it much easyer to memorise/remember players in 16 player games. Of course this is quite irrelevant in 2v2, but it helps a lot in 16 player games.
Also there is probably some other, personal reasons for some players. They chose a color, or similar color, that they see better or are more used to or like better etc. This does not mean, that they will deliberatly put two very similar colors side by side, but only that they have some choice. And playing a game rather than looking at tv is something to do with wanting to have choices, maybe.
And it is not like those games do not exist. 16 player survival was very popular lately, and some 8v8 maps are regularly played. too.
On the "color naming problem". People use names, half the name, first 3-4 lettres of the name. Or the spot of the player, if available. No need to invent special very long names for colors. People dont use those today and probably wont use those in the future.
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@wikingest said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
And it is not like those games do not exist. 16 player survival was very popular lately, and some 8v8 maps are regularly played. too.
There’s 100 8v8 games a month if people want an actual number attached to it. There are like 3,000 6v6 games and 7,000 1v1 games a month.
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@ftxcommando said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
There’s 100 8v8 games a month if people want an actual number attached to it. There are like 3,000 6v6 games and 7,000 1v1 games a month
Where does those numbers come from?
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some of those colors are too good to not add, add new colors i think its great
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@wikingest said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
@ftxcommando said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
There’s 100 8v8 games a month if people want an actual number attached to it. There are like 3,000 6v6 games and 7,000 1v1 games a month
Where does those numbers come from?
FAF api
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I agree, if we cannot add more colors could we at least vote to replace some of the existing colors with a few of the new colors, there is a particular shade of teal that looks superior to the current one imo
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@wikingest said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
But having only 16 colors, means that last one can end up with very similar color to his neighbor. And that is a problem.
The whole point of choosing only 16 colors is that you could choose ones that are NOT similar to each other. With 19 colors, you HAVE to have some colors that are similar to each other, because 19 is too many.
Since everybody keeps suggesting, here is mine. I modified Jips, because pink / dark pink combined with purple / dark purple will not work and we still have teal available as distinct, easy to call out color:
- red / dark red
- blue / dark blue
- green / dark green
- teal
- orange / brown
- yellow / dark yellow (mustard)
- bright pink / dark pink = bright purple / dark purple
- white / grey
Compared to what we have now (which is 19 colors):
- number of greens/blues/teals reduced from 7 to 5
- number of pinks/purples reduced from 4 to 3
The rest basically is still the same. If you want, throw in lime as an additional color, so the last person in a 8v8 can still choose between 2.
If those colors are properly chosen, they should be easy to distinguish and call-out for any non-color-blind person, and i am still in favor of giving color-blind people slightly (!) altered color sets, where only the problematic colors are changed. For example for the red-green-blind set you would slightly change greens and reds to have different brightness or mix in slight other colors.
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@katharsas said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
The whole point of choosing only 16 colors is that you could choose ones that are NOT similar to each other. With 19 colors, you HAVE to have some colors that are similar to each other
Some people here really think that players are taking the time to thoughtfully consider whether their color is too close to the color of their neighbor
That's never going to happen consistently
The best thing is if every color is distinct from every other color
That is easier to achieve with fewer colors
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@katharsas said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
The whole point of choosing only 16 colors is that you could choose ones that are NOT similar to each other. With 19 colors, you HAVE to have some colors that are similar to each other, because 19 is too many.
Definition of similar can depend from person who is looking, of course. But after looking at those 16 colors propositions above, I totally see similar colors. From my eyes, we do not have a proposition without similar colors jet. So it is pointless and harming to reduce the number of colors.
@arma473 said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
Some people here really think that players are taking the time to thoughtfully consider whether their color is too close to the color of their neighbor
Players totally consider neighbors colors (thoughtfully, I bet
) to avoid too similar color. There is even discussions and negotiations about this in lobby. There is no doubt about it. Now what is the exact statistic about it, or your definition of consistency, I do not know. But as I said, I have not seen 16 colors without some similar colors.And if really there is a player who does not consider colors. He eather does not have problem with it or he will very soon notice that he should start considering about colors. This is not a reason to create a problem into the game for others (by reducing nombre of avilable colors).
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Because we have sorta similar 16 colors we should make the problem worse by introducing even more sorta similar colors? Because it makes no sense to say having smaller intervals on a color wheel between colors would make it any easier to do the intended purpose (identification) behind colors. If it’s a problem with 16 colors, it’s still a problem minimized at 16.
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Lets just stay old and boring
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@wikingest said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
Players totally consider neighbors colors (thoughtfully, I bet ) to avoid too similar color.
I am a player. And I've never thought of that during my entire player career.
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@jip said in Do not add new colors - discussion:
Players totally consider neighbors colors (thoughtfully, I bet ) to avoid too similar color.
I am a player. And I've never thought of that during my entire player career.
Well, if you take everything out of context also...
Your comment followed my comment, that followed arma's comment, that followed Katharsas comment, that followed my comment. And now I am following your comment. It seemed clear to me, that I was talking about "some" players, not necessarily "all" players. I even pointed out that I do not know the exact statistic about it. So I dont see conflict with your last comment... I dont really see on what should I answer here...
It is not hard to check colors, as those are even shown on (mini)map while you are in lobby. The statistic about people checking colors or not might be little bit interesting, but here are more than one reason to not reduce the number of colors. So it could be more interesting to get statistic about people wanting to reduce the number of colors or not. If making a vote, rather about "reducing the number of available colors or not". I am not sure if vote about "considering neighbors colors or not" would add much to the discussion. Cheers
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My main issue with more colours being added is I expect it'd increase games where similar colours are chosen making it harder to tell them apart.
However, a potential solution to this could be to have an automated message that appears in the game lobby warning if players have similar colours (so people are less likely to start a game where this is the case).
At the risk of increasing an already crowded area, it could be added to the observers box similarly to how team scores are displayed, but in red text so it's noticeable.
This assumes it's possible to tell what colours have been chosen by players in the lobby.
