TS stated in first post that he want to increase performance of T2 land against ACU.

Not make semi-agressive use of ACU you described impossible to worse players (like me)
Not nerf ACU against T1

I made math to check if one of his suggestions (nerfing gun damage) do help for this.
It is not but also greatly reduce chances of ACU against T1 land. To increase T2 land chances overcharge have to be nerfed instead.
TS don't like idea of nerfing overcharge. Instead he suggests to remove entire playstyle for not best players by removing auto-OC. That is how it looks for noob me.
Which in turn I don't like.

Idle ACU dies under 1k mass Cybran artillery in 12 seconds.
Or it's not actually idle.

You suggest to change game from "manage your ACU or die" to "micromanage your ACU or die". It's a bad change.

In simpler words.

It's overcharge that kills T2. Not a main gun.

So what actually you want to get by removing auto-OC or nerfing non-OC damage in half?

You stated that it's better chances of T2 against ACU. Neither of this really helps T2 against ACU.
To help T2 against ACU you'll have to really nerf overcharge.
But you don't want to nerf overcharge don't you? It's too fun to play.

I don't try to solve problem of making use of ACU riskier.
I try to solve problem of making T2 stronger against ACU without changing ACU vs T1 balance too much.
Free kills by ACU apply to T1 and T2 equally. OC and base gun have big difference.

@ftxcommando for simplicity. I needed some average value. Properly microed OC will be even stronger against T2 compared to T1

So to buff T2 against ACU we actually should keep auto-OC and remove non-auto-OC instead.

When unit stats in FAF Client will be updated?
Eg. no naval updates now

@ftxcommando

About nerfing damage of ACU:
I did some math for current state of game
Used UEF units as example stats. No regen, overkill, range, veterancy and unit loss taken in account.
Assumed 5s OC cooldown, 2 units killed by OC average.

Calculated price of ACU in units

• ACU vs T1:
  ** No OC, No Gun: ~13
  ** No OC, Gun: ~18
  ** OC, No Gun: ~19
  ** OC, Gun: ~23

• ACU vs T2:
  ** No OC, No Gun: ~3,7
  ** No OC, Gun: ~5,2
  ** OC, No Gun: ~9
  ** OC, Gun: ~9,8

So against T1 units Gun upgrade have almost same strength as enabling OC
Nerfing damage will impact T1 vs ACU
But against T2 units Gun upgrade is negligible compared to OC
Nerfing damage will NOT impact T2 vs ACU

What can be done to nerf ACU against T2 (without removing one kill OC and buffing it against T1):

• Limit OC splash damage to only one shot T1
• increase OC cooldown based on latest OC strength
• Increase ACU damage AND increase OC cooldown

Looks like something that need playtesting.
Maybe an option while creating match?

Same question for T2 and T3 engineers.

What if we 2x them instead of T1?

Rename "I need help" forum to "Tech support"

Because it is "Tech support" now

Add "Gameplay discussion" forum with subforum "New player help"
Rename "I need help" forum to "Tech support"

I cannot find subforum that have answers "how to play?", "how to play Cybran?", "how to play Air?" in easy form. There are some videos on youtube but youtube is bad place for discussions and noob questions

"I need help" forum is tech-support forum as I can see. Please rename it for clarity.

People that trying to play and fail will find this forums and no answers. So they sometimes go to balance forums. You know what comes next

Crunches, crunches everywhere...

Just limit deploy to T3 engineers

Some cost and BP increase also can be done for T2-T3 engineers but this is much more complicated suggestion to balance.

Deployed units are really unmovable. I thought ACU would bump them on way out.
Looks like hard to use but still a problem.

https://replay.faforever.com/13850527

@techmind_ said in Merge engineers into support engineers to circumvent pathing issues.:

The main problem is 1) shit pathfinding 2) small assist range.
It's same shit pathfinding and bad range at all tiers.
Kennels/hives fix both problems, kennels have worse bp but can fly anywhere.

Pathfiding is not fixable, but better range is changeable.
We need a way to contrate bp efficiently in specific area.

Deploy button on engineers
After deploy engineers cannot move and get double range effectively transforming into small hives

No pathfinding - no problem

BIG thanks for answer

As I see it first of all balance team should determine a purposes of forum.

Should it be a sort of bugtracker, place for discussion and feedback of future changes (then it will be ok to be dead most time of year), or something else

Probably there should be a member of balance team that reads forum and filter it before passing ideas to rest of balance team.

PS my butthurt was cased because there was change in rules to close one specific topic. That's really dirty play.

Forum is dead after recent guidelines change

If this is what you want than just close this forum

I'm against setting SACU presets in stone not for balance reasons but for emotional reasons
They are support-ACU
ACU should have option to upgrade

Also:
Why them have more base(unupgraded) hitpoints than ACU? Seems counterintuitive.
They are support-ACU

SACU BP nerf:
Big buff to engineer stations I see.

Engineer upgrade cost almost as another SACU (1500 mass)
This makes eng-SACU BP/mass ratio 35+. More than twice as Cybran eng-station.

WTF balance team?

If you so scared of RAS SACU then put BP and RAS upgrades to same slot or just remove RAS upgrade from game

Seraphim rambo:
Phim have 2 ways to make a rambo:

1. Overcharge + NanoRegen + Gun Upgrade (range and sensors)
2. Overcharge + NanoRegen + Regen Aura

Second one have better tank and also a support SACU. Mixed category detected

Looks like I should explain how I see roles of T2 amphibious units and why wagner is bad in some of them.

1. Raiding. Wagner is fine. Overall unit strength is not that important as speed, stealth, cost and DPS.
2. Land fallback option in different cases. In this area wagner is shit because of bad stats. This I suggest to fix.
   Reasons when you want to have fallback option:
   2.1) Swamp maps. They are rare and have other balance issues.
   2.2) Overall choice of more mobile army in some cases.
   2.3) Bad main tank performance in some cases. Notably Aeon against T1 spam and Cybran at hilly maps
3. Navy fallback option. Not applicable to wagner. (Unless you make it floating on surface)

Most important problem IMO is 2.3